there is a reason I don't be I live you want change for this site and I think it is more personal. let's start with the fact hat I demoted myself. something both you and simply admitted to being happy about you then continued to attack my thread. if you truly wished for change and honestly thought I was corrupt. wouldn't you be happy I demoted myself and compliment my ability to step away from power and view things from the outside? instead you chose to mock me and try your best to poke at my emotions til you could get me to flame you and inevitably be infracted myself even if you had to take yourself down with me.

Second I want to clear up some of the reasons I choose to demote myself. I had been feeling the stress of constantly being badgered by what I consider idiots that I wanted a break. I be I live I even mentioned this to Simply while we were on speaking terms months ago. wiether he wishes to agree to this irrelivent though. I would be lying if I said your recent thread wasn't the final straw in demoting myself. it was definatly the push I needed, but not exactly for the reasons you think. yes here was a considerable amount of anger at people believing what I think to be a false crusade. but I also wanted to actually see what it feels like to be a member, as it has been awhile since I was an odinarry member myself. last I wanted to prove to myself that you were actually not concerned with the site and only interested in removing me and any other mod you dislike from the site. I feel between our argument in my thread last night and you now targeting of Jack proves this, at least to me anyway.

I do want to mention that before all of jaks outbursts on both yours and simmys walls there was a considerable amount of spamming and flaming coming from the both of you and others on his wall. I just don't feel it is fair to not mention both sides of the argument. I know this because when we were friends I would encourage this behavior when ever jaks annoyed me. not the most appropriate behavior on my part I admit, but the trolling was gonna happen either way.

as for my warning vs your infraction. I was actually under the impression we both received a warning for that argument. neither of really went full steam and I thought the warning was just trying to stop us in our tracks. I urge swordsmen or cit to either bump my warning up to an infraction or bump jocers down to a warning. either way is honestly fine. as I mentioned earlier I was really trying to test Jocer to see if he was really serious about these changes he is demanding and was fully prepared to receive an infraction point to find out.

finally I do want to express how I feel as a member now as I did also do this to try an honestly view jocers points in case I was wrong about his motives. I do feel a sense of powerlessness as I am no longer able to see the moderator discussions and can perfectly understand why members can feel cheated on certain infractions. why I can't think of any real way to change this as I don't think all infractions should be discussed in the open. I do feel the member in question should have the opertunity to read the discussion about him/her. this may be able to remove the sense of powerlessness from some members. as for the off topic rule I do think it has a purpose but I do think an infraction for it is very excessive, same for other minor offenses. I would suggest to citrinate to add a minor and major option similar to what we have for flaming, but instead of 1 point or 3 points. minor infractions would be forced warnings, while people who are constantly repeating plate after having them deleted should still receive the 1 point.

even though Jocer may have started this crusade for the wrong reasons. he has brought up a lot of good points I cannot ignore. not all of his ideas are gold of course but some are worth looking into. for the record my opinion of you Jocer has not changed, but I always do my best to still treat people I dislike fairly. as for my mod status I am going to continue acting as a normal member. I want to see if I can find anymore issues myself that I otherwise over look due to mod status convinense. I do fully intend to return to the mod staff in the future though

please excuse the poor excuse for English. my auto correct is still adjusting to how I type And it is a pain to fix everything after posting a short story. I should mention most cases of simply are actually Simmy. again sorry for any confusion.

Jax, dont get it twisted. I even sent you a text apologizing my behavior towards you about the flames. This isn't a personal situation anymore i have admitted my wrongs for that.

I do agree, that both your warning and my infraction should be placed on both standing and be neutralized.

You kinda got where i got it. Members feel powerless in most cases in the past and now. That they can get banned and infracted and couldn't do anything to change it when its too late.

I also think we have pointed out that i have opened up a crusade of a Revolution and want change.

Thank you for your opinion Jax.

Now I'm going to pull a 180.

Whats the point of all of you moderators wanting to help citrinate run this site anyway? He is only using all of you. Take this from me, the person who was excommunicated, stripped and demoted. I never got any thankyou from anyone, not even Citrinate could man up and thank me even though he didn't need me any longer.

The most funniest part about this site and Citrinate himself, is he created some virtual hierarchy which is all for his amusement/entertainment as he just sits back with his legs up having a chuckle from his computer chair. He doesn't care about any of you moderators, he only wants to use you to help him to run his site. Thats what he did to me, at the very least.

If you want to save whatever of the community you have left Cit, you will remove the whole moderator status altogether, and revise your rules to this site because right now mods are taking advantage picking and choosing when and who to give out infractions. Now they are all being called out for it because the community had enough. You can't run or avoid this problem because the solution to this will determine if you should even bother running this site anymore.

Even though I don't know Cit personally. I think your post is just a butthurt post. Because of what happened to you. Since it isn't back up with any facts your just barking in the wind.

I hope the next person to read your post will maturely ignore it.

Also I hope no mod delete it either because it will only add more hate into you. I feel you don't need any more of that.

Only issues with this website is that there is some flaws that need to be corrected. Which I been bitching to my friend kame for a long time. I thank jocer for finally making a thread about it so we can come to some can of resolution.

Not butthurt at all actually, as I couldn't really care less about this site anymore, I only care about DBOPS because it's the last chance we have at playing DBO and I don't want this site to get in the way of that. If we want DBOPS to work out, we need everyone to work together and not hate eachother. Which is what moderators are doing a good job at right now in terms of getting the community to hate them.

I'm the one person who can actually talk from both perspectives, as I've been around for awhile and I've been on both sides of the fence.

I can't back up my facts? Alright, let me list my "facts" for you.


This was citrinates last message to me, which pretty much said he used me. Don't say I'm butthurt because I'm telling the truth from what I've witnessed.

Everyone should just calm down and make peace.

Citrinate should just tell all moderators to drop any beef they have with people because the game is closing down. If there are any signs of bias behaviour then they should be demoted, that's it.

We also need a few adjustment to rules such as removing off topic posts, and locking threads based on assumptions that it will turn into flaming. Threads should only be locked when the flaming actually starts, not before it starts.

to an extent cit is using the mods. but we all knew that going in. he posted threads multiple times asking who he wanted to take up the position of helping maintain order on the site. he never forced the position on any of us, it was our choice. although it is obvious a lot of moderators had it out for you prior to your demotion it is still fact they didn't feel you providing any help to the staff at the time. you even mentioned to me and I don't know who else that you were only going to moderate the members you disliked and deliberately ignore those you liked.

that being said you were a great mod at one point and I don't think anyone with a level head will deny that. but it seems kind of petty to be upset at not getting a thank you for community service. you don't do it for the thanks, you do it cause you want to help the community. most mods don't even get thanked by the members, more so we have angry people upset for us punishing them. its just something we have to deal with at times. as the community takes the mods for granted and generally only address us when they are upset.

if it does mean something to you. thank you for your previous service as a mod. we may not see eye to eye now but at a point in time you were the most active moderator and relitivly fair. although it may have changed toward the end, it was true at one point. so thank you.

I'm hoping this double post will merge as editing is a pain via mobile. but I also want to add that citrinate did apologize for having to demote you. although it wasn't mentioned me and citrinate tried many times to lean you toward the right path again. he only gave up on you when he felt like he had no choice.

also it is really hard to keep perfectly unbiased mods. it is very rare to find and the only people who can truly manage it have long since stopped playing. to fix this citrinate always try to select moderators from both sides of a grand in game conflict. for example leinad was chosen for being a very level headed person from team up rise while nikalssj was chosen for being on team sovereign. also the main reason you were chosen as a moderator was because we had a large amount of legion moderators and vesperia was the active rival at the moment. my point being, it is difficult to find those perfectly neutral mods so citrinate trys to keep a balance on his team. this often leads to members of the opposite faction feeling that moderator is corrupt. but still, all mods review each infractikn and if it is unfair we try to reverse it asap.

I know that we all applied, but my point is I found like I was treated unfairly and was not able to even talk about my side to the story to anyone. All the PM's I sent to everyone involved at the time ignored me. I felt left in the dark and outraged because of how the issue was handled. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong because Citrinate never had a word with me. One week before my demotion he sent me this PM:


I then apologised, and tried to correct my behavior as best I could, and stopped all feuds. One week later I found myself demoted which I found to be a cowardly act and I never got any response back from anyone. I PM'd Citrinate, Kiyza and swordsmen and all 3 of them ignored me completely. How would you feel if you were put in that situation? In a way, I then understood how normal members feel after moderators tell them to handle an issue privately. This issue was completely private, yet no one bothered to have any courtesy to talk to me which I found disgusting. Then I had some moderators cheer over their little victory about me being demoted just to add to everything else.


I've been brought up that saying thank you to someone is for free and costs nothing. After helping this site for as long as I did, thats all I ever wanted and no one ever could bother giving it to me. Instead people just cheered about myself being demoted.


After this long I guess its kind of pointless saying thank you to me now since after everything that happened I did turn my back on the community and stopped posting on this site for awhile as there were some people still out to try to infract me, which was another flaw of this community. I will say thank you though for doing the mature thing and saying that after all this time, although citrinate still hasn't to this day and makes me wonder if he ever will. I find it stupid that I have to ask for a "thank you" from him. So thank you jax, it does mean something to me as thats all I ever wanted and not to be treated the way I was.


Well I never got any apology. He only sent me 2 PM's when I was demoted (the 2 PM's in my posts above) and no one even bothered/cared to listen to me. I find it ironic that only now when the game is closing I can finally share the light with everyone and only now people are listening to my side of the story. I am only bringing this up now because I don't want any mod to feel the way I did as it was terrible and if anyone were put in my shoes they would understand where I'm coming from. I was never given the chance to change.

One of the rare moments when I gotta say, I agree with you, like seriously, Citrinate is the owner of the site, still moderators gets flamed for something what only Cit could fix.. that's kinda weird for me

I'm not trying to harp on past issues or bring back previous conflicts. but for a week there was an open discussion in the mod boards about your current moderator status and nearly every active moderator participated at least one post. you never once tried to defend yourself. back then I assumed that you just given up and were just testing to see if citrinate would actually demote you. but after seeing that message from cit I understand that you may have just been trying to avoid further conflict.

whatever the reason you were given an oppertunity to defend yourself and express your side of the story. it just wasn't as private as you had hoped. again I'm not trying to harp on past conflicts. just expressing my opinion as we completely cut communication around that time frame.